We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. Perfectly tailored to man the ramparts of your home. I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. You have entered an incorrect email address! and our It was too short. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. Choice of ammunition for AR-15s used to be limited by the 1:9-inch-twist barrel. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] - Bravo Company Buttstock/Pistol Grip/Handguard/Trigger Guard, Nickel Boron GI Trigger, 16 Melonite Barrel w/ 1:8 Twist. Taurus Marketing Manager Caleb Giddings highlights the features of the new Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum, a purpose-built revolver with a 10.5-inch barrel and an effective recoil-taming brake, with Guns & Ammo Executive Editor Joe Kurtenbach. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to Maybe they will give me some clarity. The Sig Virtus has these possible configurations: 300 Blackout: Barrel Lengths 6.75", 9", and 16" 5.56mm : Barrel Lengths 11.5" and 16" The Virtus is the more flexible platform, but there is nothing wrong with the Rattler. When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. My wife surprized me with a Birthday gift this year the new CZ TS2 Blue . Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. Has anyone actually tried the omega 9k on the rattler? The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. Knowing this, I still was dubious when I picked up the PDW from my local FFL. New! But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . Thanks Bio. I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. Hornadys 110-grain V-MAX bullet penetrated 26 inches and retained 88.7 grains of its original bullet weight. So these two were on my list . JavaScript is disabled. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It boasts the nice extra of a forward flash diverter, clearing the line of sight for fast follow-ups and target acquisition. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. This website contains many older reviews. Of course, given the Rattlers short barrel, some gel testing was in order. Some big news for trigger pullers recently from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. But the safety and the magazine release were ambidextrous. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. 9mm this thing is a work of art and insanely smooth as silk , it shoots its self ..LOL. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. Cookie Notice In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. Now I have Seven Springfield guns with Five Saint Victors . The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. Reptilia sent me one of these compact grips late last year. So move along . I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. Why pay more? I own the Springfield Saint Victor. An example that comes to mind is how the handguard that comes stock has mlok that only goes halfway down, and people complain about it getting real hot, and conveniently they sell a upgraded version with mlok that covers the whole thing, and effectively solves . The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. I just wish the right-side lever was shorter so it wouldnt bump my trigger finger when flipping it off. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. Hampering this a bit out of the box is a mil-spec clone trigger, easily rectified with your favorite upgrade model. So was the grip and handguard. SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. Do Pistols Benefit From Popular Aftermarket Modifications? Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. Coming in at 5.1 pounds empty, sporting a 5.5-inch barrel and folded length of 17 inches, the MCX Rattler is definitely compact enough to be carried anywhere. Learn how your comment data is processed. S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank. With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . The efficiency and versatility of barrels have been upgraded to take advantage of heavier bullets able to land a more effective blow at greater distance. The trigger was forgiving in any situation, and construction was first rate. Since then, the company expanded the line of guns to include a range of variations that fall into three main lines. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. The bottom line? Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . You have entered an incorrect email address! The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. During our action test, we simply ignored the sights and read the dot. It's an entry level rifle that's pretty much designed to sell accessories. Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. During our action tests, we landed four A-zone hits on targets left and center. However, I ended up loving it for what it is. One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. Please keep us posted. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. Its very handy. The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. Though, the pistol is a 1:8 twist rate affair. Love my M400 Tread and if I was in the market for another AR Rifle, i'd absolutely consider it. Not only did the 77-grainers shoot straight, this uber-short-barreled pistol grouped between 2.5 and 4 MOA with everything I gave it. In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. (CA Compliant). It is everywhere and inexpensive, especially when compared to those two boutique cartridges. One last more subtle upgrade was the trigger guard from Bravo Company that left more room for a gloved finger without necessarily having to unlatch the bottom panel. I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. Keep Reading. The aluminum hanguard is 6 inches long and has M-LOK attachment slots. The detent spring was quite heavy and the grip necessary to compress it proved awkward. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Save my name and email to use for future comments. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Probably, but not at 900 fps. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. Matte Black. It's a little longer but CZ Bren 2 MS pistol can be had in 5.56 or 7.62x39 with a couple added inches of barrel than the Sig Rattler. Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. Listen to both sides of the story before you make a decision based on one magazine article. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. Our best-of-test group measured 0.4 inch across. With most loads, a 9-inch barrel is enough bore for a complete powder burn. FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. I have not shot the Tread, I have handled and inspected it though. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. And when the special operations community began searching for a new 300 Blackout PDW, Sig Sauer provided a solution with the SIG MCX Rattler. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. However, the company Match Duo, with a 5.5 break, does a much better job of getting the most out of the pistol. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. Its also rated for rounds up to the .300 Winchester Magnum, so it wont have issues with higher-pressure 300 Blackout loads. SAAMI Accepts 30 Super Carry As New Standardized Cartridge, SHOT 2022: Federal Premium Announces 30 Super Carry Cartridge. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. They screwed up, realize it, and took care of the problem. I recently bought a Christensen Arms CA-15 G2 in Burnt Bronze, Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Carbon Fiber hand guard. Interestingly, Sig is one of the gunmakers that subscribe to faster-than-usual twist rates for 300 Blackout1:5. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? Saw that email pop up today. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. Unless otherwise noted, these reviews carry the guns prices at the time of the original review. As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. In the confusion the shot was released off line or as one might say, out of time. For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). Rattler was built to be fired primarily unsuppressed, with the ability to be suppressed, if needed. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. Featuring a 5.5" PDW barrel, the MCX platform has never been more compact or accessible. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. The Premier Body Armor Vertx Collaboration Adds More Options, VIDEO: Police Snipers Train for Super Bowl LIV With .50 BMG, More, The MAUSER 98 125th Anniversary Limited-Edition Series, FIRST LOOK: Glock Just Very Quietly Unveiled the New Glock 47 Pistol, Police Sidearms: The Handguns of Americas 10 Largest Departments, Black Creek Labs MRX Bronco, TRX Bronco Hunter Rifles, CMP Surplus Ammo Coming Soon in M2 Ball, .30 Carbine & More, Active School Shooter Training: 14 Key Points to Consider, 5 Strategies For Effectively Completing a Tactical Reload, FIRST LOOK: Colt CBX Precision Chassis Rifle Ready to Compete & Win, 5 Common Myths on How to Survive a Gunfight, Understanding Stand Your Ground Laws and Castle Doctrine, Long-Distance Shooting: 5 Must-Know Tips For Spotters & Shooters, IMPACT Experience Events Redefine Your Long-Range Shooting Limits, Sniper Skills: Taking Your Shooting Precision to the Next Level. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. But if you want range, get a longer-barreled rifle with a slower twist rate to optimize 125-grain loads. The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. I'm looking for advice on whether to buy a Sig Sauer MCX or the Springfield Armory Saint (new free float version). This article on theSIG MCX Rattler is from the May/June 2018 issue of Tactical Life magazine. The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. Im sure some of the attention it will initially get will be negative from people who feel the same way. Essentially, this makes the suppressors job easier, since it has less expanding gas to dissipate. Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. After some time and the Rattler was more widely seen in the wild. Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. Full Member. To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. SIG MCX Rattler SBR . Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. Also, its loaded with frills not often found at this price point. This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Lets see if our money was well spent. It will likely go through a threat up close (given no contact with bone), but most of its work is done before exiting. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. Thanks for opening my eyes. The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. View Product. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. To install (or remove for cleaning), you have to pop out both pins on the lower receiver and then slide the upper receiver back and forth. You get what you pay for, in this case a pistol loaded with the companys high-performance custom parts and extras you wont find on economy models. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. Introduced in 2015, the MCX is essentially a larger, rifle-caliber version of Sig Sauers pistol-caliber MPX. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. MCX-SPEAR . SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". Sig Sauer. (Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. The top tier AR-15 rifle offered incredible performance at a very reasonable price. Facing off in a handgun challenge featuring the smallest professional-grade enclosed red dot sight on the market, Eric and Tom put the Acro P-2 to the distance test by doing a walk-back challenge. The only mistake Springfield made on an otherwise terrific design, was to have the hand guard ride over the threads. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. He is a gun owner and avid reloader from Colorado. Two of the loads were subsonic; Sigs 220-grain OTMs clustered into 0.7 inches while Lehigh Defenses 194-grain Maximum Expansion (ME) rounds created a 1-inch group. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. I was really happy . Ben Voss FN Product Manager talks about the new FN SCAR 15P ultra-compact rifle-caliber pistol at SHOT Show 2023. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? Compare. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop.