Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Thanks! It is much easier to be ready ahead of time then to have to do some changes afterwards. In most cases, because we are dealing with relatively low voltage and amperage and in a normally stable temperature and humidity climates, our wiring does not require any extra insulation. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. All members here are welcome to drop in and visit. Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Mark. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Ive talked more about the Lionel RW and the LW as well. If you like, tell us more about yourself. Price Received. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered If youre looking for Lionel transformer comparisons, youve come to the right place. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. They are known as HO train sets because they are half the size of O-guage. The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. It is important to remember that the real test of the power supply is the load you'll place on it. Any of the below transformers from M.T.H. Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. The thing that eats current is a lot of light bulbs on the layout. The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. Why Sign In? Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. It is 5" long. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. What type is your old transformer? That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. There are many advantages in repairing or reconditioning your transformers. If you have a very long run, you may want to consider Number 12 wire. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. Lionel Postwar 1033 Transformer Watch on Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct :-). Do not connect this product to any other power supply. Number 26 to 20 wire (depending on the length of your bus) will be sufficient for most applications. Mike to the forum. Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Yes, but the train will probably run too fast, depending on the output voltage of the transformer. The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. If you make a complete loop of 100 feet with good track joints, you'll have something like .1 ohm from the transformer to the farthest point, using the rule of thumb that most track is something like 16 AWG wire (.004 ohms per foot) and that there are two 50 foot tracks feeding the farthest point from two directions. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. And even when Lionel trains run on AC, they sometimes do some DC trickery. the amount of track is not what is important here. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. I have had the same problem. While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. Most command systems use a constant AC power supply, and trains are controlled by impulses sent through the rails. Remember, the only silly question is the one that you did not ask. Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. If mixing both non-command as well as command engines, both by the way will run without any thing other than the appropriate transformer, it really depends on the budget. Effort. I thought an ENGINEER was the guy driving the train? I had 3 lionel cw80's and two quit working. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. One rail is positive, the other negative. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. I use to use one KW for 70 feet of main line, sidings and switching yard entry track. EXPLORE FasTrack 10" Straight Track 4-Pack 6-12032 $ 21.99 FasTrack Grade Crossing with Flashers 6-12052 $ 99.99 FasTrack O36 Curved Track 4-Pack 6-12033 $ 21.99 Legacy AMC-2 Motor Controller The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. The iconic and legendary 270-wattLionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. I've got around 320 ft of track between all of the mainline, sidings, etc and I don't have any problems running my engines anywhere on the layout. Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. 12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz pure sine inverter. What size Lionel transformer do I need? Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. If youre comfortable doing some work yourself, you can buy a fixer-upper, and my informational links will tell you more about fixing one yourself. With the ever-increasing amount of small electronics in today's sophisticated models, this protection is more important than ever. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). Although it will not have any impact on the performance of the wire within, choosing multiple colors of wire, and standardizing on a specific color for each function, will go a long way in making your wiring easier to install and easier to detect flaws later on. Classification/marker lights on the PRR steam engine, For Sale: Lionel 6-11127 Legacy Southern Pacific GS-4 Daylight, Lionel Bethlehem Steel slag car and ATLAS NYC Baggage car, Lionel O 2333790 TrainWorld & RBP Trains Chris Raines -Exclusive - Katy LEGACY ES44AC #2021, Converting MTH Rail king GS-4 PROTO 2 to ERR Cruise Commander, The Harpers Ferry Layout II - Backdrop panels completed. Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 These systems still require a power supply but it only needs to supply a constant voltage to the rails. Theres nothing inherently wrong with them, though I would shy away from the smaller transformers that are less than 75 watts, including the modern CW-40. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, Wire Gauge Standards for Model Train Layouts, Model Train Track Grades and Maximum Grade Issues. Sell Your Trains Yourself At Train Shows. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. I have a post war ZW and a KW and a Z, all three are good transformers, just meant for differant needs. If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. Effort. M3103. TRANSFORMERS ransformers were issued by Lionel thoughout the Post War period. The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. Which Lionel transformer do I need? you ask? Ive talked more about the KW here. That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. I have one R transformer from which I run everything - but only 1 train at a time and a few accessories for a layout in a space about 24 by 10 ft. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. Dang, this math makes my head hurt. As an example, look at these two cars closely: While both are gondola cars and run on O Gauge track, note how the car on the left is much longer than the one on the right. The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. This wire is very fine and can be found in many color combinations. (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. Some people even find it fun. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. Been there, done that. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. As far as new transformers go, someone else may be able to help more than I can. Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! The 1033 is not the same as the 1044. Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. what size lionel transformer do i need. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. Faq No: 1029 no it isn't. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. What do I need to do that with? Here are a few: --The Lionel Fastrack Book, by Robert Schleicher. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. I really doubt you will need more than that. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. That means there are lots of them. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. Most recommend the TPCs over the powermasters The CW 80 will work to begin with. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Of course, the answer to that question depends on many things. If youre buying a transformer, youll be able to easily find one that a professional refurbished and upgraded with the links I provide below. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. The only time you might not get your full moneys worth is during operation of locomotives equipped with Lionels TMCC or MTHs DCS command-control systems. You should always, always test your transformer for safetybefore you set it up, andunplug it when youre not using it. For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. They run on three rail track. The smallest wire you can work with will be more than sufficient. The modern equivalent is the Lionel CW-80, but frankly I like the old ones better. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. This works for command control layouts too, since those parked trains are still drawing some current. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. Hello, I'm new to this site, and completely new to toy trains also - so please pardon my ignorance! How to open tamper resistant outlets, Xxcopy vs Xcopy: Command line copy utilities, Where to connect the red wire to a light switch, Brains 25 cents: The story behind the meme.